In 539 BC, King Belshazzar of Babylon saw a dismembered hand-written four prophetic words on the wall. This "handwriting on the wall" was finally interpreted by the prophet Daniel as predicting the fall of the kingdom. He was right. Babylon fell to the Medes-Persians that very night.
Like the “handwriting on the wall” that Prophet Daniel had interpreted, there are four Arabic words, which could lead to submission of the entire world to Islam, if non-Muslims do not fully understand their meaning and implications. Those words are takiyya, tawriya, kitman, and muruna.
Rembrandt, Belshazzar’s Feast (1635), National Gallery, London
Each of these words describes a different style of deception used by Muslims when discussing Islam or their activities as Muslims.Muhammad famously said, “War is deceit.” (Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 52, Number 268) The Quran boasts that Allah is the “master of all scheming” (Surah 13:42) and that he is “profound in his machinations” (Surah 8:30). Western civilizations are not accustomed to dealing with people, who have developed deception into an art form. Knowledge is power, and the best way to combat the Islamist agenda is to say, “We are wise to your shenanigans. Knock it off!”
Takiyya
Takiyya is defined as dissimulation about ones Muslim identity. It comes from the verse in the Quran that says, “Let believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful – he that does has nothing to hope for from Allah – except in self-defense(illaa an-tattaqu minhum tuqah) (Surah 3:28). This “self-defense” justifies dissimulation. Islamic Sharia Law provides, “When it is possible to achieve an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible, and lying is obligatory if the goal is obligatory.” (Reliance of the Traveler, Para r8.2) Examples include lying to protect Islam or a Muslim.
Tawriya
Tawriya is defined as concealing, and it could be called “creative lying”. It is OK to break the intent of the oath, as long as you don’t break the letter of the oath. (Reliance of the Traveler, sections o19.1 and o19.5) How does this work? Suppose someone protests that Surah 1 of the Quran demeans Christians and Jews, because it is a supplication Muslims make to Allah seventeen times a day to keep them from the path of “those with whom God is angry” and “those who have lost their way”. A Muslim might respond, “Surah 1 never mentions Jews or Christians.” He is practicing tawriya, because while Surah 1 does not mention Jews and Christians by name, but he knows full-well that the words “those” refer to Jews and Christians.
Another example would be when a Muslim responds to your greeting of “Merry Christmas!” He might say, “I wish you the best.” In your mind, you think he has returned a Christmas greeting. In actuality, he has expressed his wish for you to convert to Islam; he wishes the best for you which, in his view, is becoming a Muslim.
Kitman
Kitman is characterized by someone telling only part of the truth. The most common example of this is when a Muslim says that jihadreally refers to an internal, spiritual struggle. He is not telling “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth”, as witnesses are sworn to do in U.S. courts. Often, kitman results in a gross distortion of the truth. In the example given, the Quran uses jihad and its derivatives 59 times. Of those, only 16 (27%) could be considered “internal” with no object as the target of the struggle based on the context of the surah.
Another common form of kitman is to quote only the few peaceful passages from the Quran, knowing full-well that that passage was later abrogated by a more militant, contradictory verse. Here is an example:
“There is no compulsion in religion” (Surah 2:256) Early Medina
“Are they seeking a religion other than Allah’s, when every soul in the heavens and earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion?” (Surah 3:83 Later Medina)
Another example:
“Permission to take up arms is hereby given to those who are attacked, because they have been wronged.” (Surah 22:39) Late Mecca
“When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere for them.” (Surah 9:5) Late Medina
Muruna
Muruna means using “flexibility” to blend in with the enemy or the surroundings. The justification for this kind of deception is a somewhat bizarre interpretation of Surah 2:106, which says, “If we abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We will replace it by a better one or similar.” Thus, Muslims may forget some of the commands in the Quran, as long as they are pursuing a better command. Muslims striving to advance Islam, therefore, can deviate from their Islamic laws in order to cause non-Muslims to lower their guard and place their trust in their Muslim counterpart.
At times, Muslims practice muruna in the same way a chameleon changes colors to avoid detection. Muslims will sometimes shave off their beards, wear western clothing, or even drink alcohol to blend in with non-Muslims. Nothing is more valuable these days to the Islamists than a blue-eyed Caucasian Muslim willing to engage in terrorism.
Another common way of using muruna is for a Muslim to marry a non-Muslim or to behave like a non-Muslim so their true agenda will not be suspected. The 9/11 hijackers visited strip clubs and bars during their off-times while taking classes in the U.S. to fly airplanes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the White House. Many Americans believe Hillary Clinton’s aide, Huma Abedin, married Jewish Congressman Anthony Weiner at least in part to burnish her security credentials so she could infiltrate the highest levels of the Administration.
The implications of these highly-honed tactics of deception could be enormous for unassuming Western societies. Twenty years ago, psychologist Paul Ekman wrote an insightful book, “Telling Lies”, which demonstrated that people give off recognizable clues when they are practicing deceit. Their consciences cause them, involuntarily, to sweat or raise their voices or make other recognizable gestures. However, Dr. Ekman’s research was exclusively with people from Western cultures. Muslims, on the other hand, show no discernible signs when they are being deceitful because there is no feeling of guilt. In their minds they are doing exactly what Allah wants them to do to advance Islam. Because any Western person who has raised children knows almost intuitively when someone is lying, so they assume they can do that in all cases. Unfortunately, those same Western people can be easily duped by Islamic deceit because there are no tell-tale signs in the deceiver.
Hopefully, this article will be a wake-up call to the unsuspecting infidels. Trust but verify – as was an old American strategy in dealing with potentially hostile parties – is the way to go in dealing with Islamists.
Comments (76)
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GOOD ONE
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 31, 2012
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 31, 2012
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 31, 2012
la pigdog il pigdog muhamed ur rasul pigdog
written by barry , July 31, 2012
in the 2nd last sentence, the author ought to hv written non-muslim in the space of westerm people.
written by Reed Wilson. , July 31, 2012
Luis Palme. You are no less than our Ibn Kathir or Ibn Jarir. You write "Takiyya is defined as dissimulation about ones Muslim identity. It comes from the verse in the Quran that says, “Let believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful – he that does has nothing to hope for from Allah – except in self-defense (illaa an-tattaqu minhum tuqah) (Surah 3:28)."
The Arabic word taqayya has appeared as such, twice in Quran.
قَالَتْ إِنِّي أَعُوذُ بِالرَّحْمَـٰنِ مِنكَ إِن كُنتَ تَقِيًّا
"I seek refuge in the Merciful from you, if you fear Him," she said".19:18
تِلْكَ الْجَنَّةُ الَّتِي نُورِثُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا مَن كَانَ تَقِيًّا
"This is the Paradise those of Our creatures will inherit who take heed and fear the displeasure of God".19:63
In both cases it is used for fear of Allah or for respecting his law. It is verb and not noun.
We know that, in self defense, one can even kill another person according to law. Allah says:
"O you who believe, obey the commands of God, and say straightforward things That He may straighten your affairs for you and forgive your sins; and he who obeys God his apostle will be successful".
'When in Rome do as Romans do' is not the law of lord.
The Arabic word taqayya has appeared as such, twice in Quran.
قَالَتْ إِنِّي أَعُوذُ بِالرَّحْمَـٰنِ مِنكَ إِن كُنتَ تَقِيًّا
"I seek refuge in the Merciful from you, if you fear Him," she said".19:18
تِلْكَ الْجَنَّةُ الَّتِي نُورِثُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا مَن كَانَ تَقِيًّا
"This is the Paradise those of Our creatures will inherit who take heed and fear the displeasure of God".19:63
In both cases it is used for fear of Allah or for respecting his law. It is verb and not noun.
We know that, in self defense, one can even kill another person according to law. Allah says:
"O you who believe, obey the commands of God, and say straightforward things That He may straighten your affairs for you and forgive your sins; and he who obeys God his apostle will be successful".
'When in Rome do as Romans do' is not the law of lord.
written by Bingo , July 31, 2012
Sir,
What is your take on 3.28? If I am a non believer and harmless, why Allah wants Muslims to avoid me?
What is your take on 3.28? If I am a non believer and harmless, why Allah wants Muslims to avoid me?
written by dead or aliive , July 31, 2012
What a Muslim thinks when he,she looks a non Muslim in the eye;`Honesty is stupiidity`Non Muslims must to be gentle as a dove but wise.Stand up for common decency.
written by Infidel and More proud , July 31, 2012
Sir you are full of shit which keeps falling out of of your jihadi Arsz. Big and loose result of jihadi sodomi.
written by Reed Wilson. , July 31, 2012
Bingo. Dont be disheartened my friend. Allah is not asking me to avoid you even if you are not harmless.
The verse means that 'when it comes to preferring over believer' on certain matter. It is hard to recognize a believer. He has no horns. Therefore, that believer is only that whom you know thoroughly.
Allah has also said.
"Be obedient to God, and make none His compeer, and be good to your parents and relatives, the orphans and the needy and the neighbors who are your relatives, and the neighbors who are strangers, and the friend by your side, the traveller and your servants and subordinates. God does not surely love those who are arrogant and boastful, 33:36
Parents, relatives, orphans, needy, neighbors who are your relatives, and the neighbors who are strangers, and the friend by your side (who was your company for a while) , the traveler, servants and subordinates etc can be NON BELIEVERS.
I did not take your test before interacting with you.
The verse means that 'when it comes to preferring over believer' on certain matter. It is hard to recognize a believer. He has no horns. Therefore, that believer is only that whom you know thoroughly.
Allah has also said.
"Be obedient to God, and make none His compeer, and be good to your parents and relatives, the orphans and the needy and the neighbors who are your relatives, and the neighbors who are strangers, and the friend by your side, the traveller and your servants and subordinates. God does not surely love those who are arrogant and boastful, 33:36
Parents, relatives, orphans, needy, neighbors who are your relatives, and the neighbors who are strangers, and the friend by your side (who was your company for a while) , the traveler, servants and subordinates etc can be NON BELIEVERS.
I did not take your test before interacting with you.
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 31, 2012
MUSLIMS R CRAZYILY OBSESSED BY 72 VIRGINA AND WINE IN IMAGINARY JANNAT.THEY WILL DO ANYTHING FOR THEIR IMAGINARY GOAL.
ALSO KORAN IS UNSCIENTIFIC IMMORAL AND TOTALLY OUT OF SYNC LIKE TORAH-TALMUD0BIBLE.
EVEN KAMASUTRA IS BETTER THAN ANY OF THESE FAKE BOOKS.
written by fineliving56 , July 31, 2012
Please when it comes to Quran's Arabic and Arabic language in whole, do not make your post sound so certain and make it as facts …
I do not read all your long posts do to short time …. but when I do read I find many wrong facts in translations and assertions that you post …
for example …
you say ''Taqiyya'' is found only 2 times in Quran … While just before 19/18 the Aya you brought , that word '' taqiyya '' was included in 19/13 ? …
And it is not … Taqayya … it is Taqiiyya …with pronounced i … II should be doubled to stress on it .
Surah 19 … started talking about, ''Zakaiya'' then'' Yahya'' then ''Maryam'' , mother Jesus Christ in Aya : 16 … read the whole transaltion all of it … you will understand what quran is trying to say .
In Quran Surit al Maryam 19 - 16/17/1819/20 …
Allah was NOT talking, to all of US in general like you said …
Quran was telling a story about Maryam [ After all The surah's name IS Maryam ] It telling of how, Maryam was fearing her family after she was rejected or degraded by them '' Intabazat '' so she veiled her self from them [ screen her self ] in a place in the east. and how An angel came to her and she told him, if he '' feared Allah '' [ Taqiyya ] to not come near me. And the Angel, told Maryam not to fear,because, he came to her to announce a messenger [ Jesus ] coming from Allah soul [ ruhina ] to give to her a righteous boy [ Jesus ] … then she [ Maryam ] said to the angel …'' How can I have a boy [ in side me ] when no man has touched me, and I never committed indecency [ having sex without marriage ]
Reed … you Muslim accuse non Muslim of taking words of Quran out of contest it looks like you are guilty of the doing of the same thing .
I do not read all your long posts do to short time …. but when I do read I find many wrong facts in translations and assertions that you post …
for example …
you say ''Taqiyya'' is found only 2 times in Quran … While just before 19/18 the Aya you brought , that word '' taqiyya '' was included in 19/13 ? …
And it is not … Taqayya … it is Taqiiyya …with pronounced i … II should be doubled to stress on it .
Surah 19 … started talking about, ''Zakaiya'' then'' Yahya'' then ''Maryam'' , mother Jesus Christ in Aya : 16 … read the whole transaltion all of it … you will understand what quran is trying to say .
In Quran Surit al Maryam 19 - 16/17/1819/20 …
Allah was NOT talking, to all of US in general like you said …
Quran was telling a story about Maryam [ After all The surah's name IS Maryam ] It telling of how, Maryam was fearing her family after she was rejected or degraded by them '' Intabazat '' so she veiled her self from them [ screen her self ] in a place in the east. and how An angel came to her and she told him, if he '' feared Allah '' [ Taqiyya ] to not come near me. And the Angel, told Maryam not to fear,because, he came to her to announce a messenger [ Jesus ] coming from Allah soul [ ruhina ] to give to her a righteous boy [ Jesus ] … then she [ Maryam ] said to the angel …'' How can I have a boy [ in side me ] when no man has touched me, and I never committed indecency [ having sex without marriage ]
Reed … you Muslim accuse non Muslim of taking words of Quran out of contest it looks like you are guilty of the doing of the same thing .
written by alex , July 31, 2012
DID not see you mentioned your brother james holmes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you think you are attacking Islam but in-fact your preaching Islam. While I no longer practice ISLAM I see you are one ignorant baster who has no knowledge of the LANGUAGE or the fundamental of ISLAM>!!!!!!
While you have the right to mention prophet Daniel, you state that Mohamed did exist. !!!!!!!!!!good luck in your mission eliminating isalm huhuhuhuhuhuhuhu
you think you are attacking Islam but in-fact your preaching Islam. While I no longer practice ISLAM I see you are one ignorant baster who has no knowledge of the LANGUAGE or the fundamental of ISLAM>!!!!!!
While you have the right to mention prophet Daniel, you state that Mohamed did exist. !!!!!!!!!!good luck in your mission eliminating isalm huhuhuhuhuhuhuhu
written by alex , July 31, 2012
James Holmes, the Colorado student accused of killing 12 people and wounding dozens more, was reportedly under the care of Dr. Lynne Fenton, a psychiatrist who serves as the University of Colorado mental health services director.
Dr. Fenton is also the person to whom James Holmes reportedly mailed a notebook detailing his plans to attack others.
If both reports are true, it would be very unlikely that Holmes’ notebook was the first time he communicated his violent fantasies to Fenton. Having worked with thousands of mentally ill patients — some of whom have had very violent intentions and shared them with me (often resulting in my hospitalizing them, against their will) — I have never known a single one who contains all thoughts of violence while in treatment, but catalogs them in writing, then sends the written documentation through the mail.
It would be such a rare and shocking event that a
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/...z22DcO5wnu
Dr. Fenton is also the person to whom James Holmes reportedly mailed a notebook detailing his plans to attack others.
If both reports are true, it would be very unlikely that Holmes’ notebook was the first time he communicated his violent fantasies to Fenton. Having worked with thousands of mentally ill patients — some of whom have had very violent intentions and shared them with me (often resulting in my hospitalizing them, against their will) — I have never known a single one who contains all thoughts of violence while in treatment, but catalogs them in writing, then sends the written documentation through the mail.
It would be such a rare and shocking event that a
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/...z22DcO5wnu
written by alex , July 31, 2012
His father was baptized Catholic and his mother was raised Jewish. However, his upbringing was largely secular. He said that he appreciates religions for the the way it provides a community. When asked if he believes in God, he replied, "It's a complicated question. Yes, to some extent."
This answer puts him in the category of Agnostic. Additionally, he has repeatedly stated, "We only have this one life."
If he were Catholic, then he would speak of "the life everlasting" (heaven). And, he would recognize Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, which he does not do.
If he were Jewish, he would state what type of follower he is: i.e. Orthodox, Conservative or Reformed.
He believes in evolution and does not believe that the world was created in Seven days.
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What...z22DdGyeM1
written by alex , July 31, 2012
His father was baptized Catholic and his mother was raised Jewish. However, his upbringing was largely secular. He said that he appreciates religions for the the way it provides a community. When asked if he believes in God, he replied, "It's a complicated question. Yes, to some extent."
This answer puts him in the category of Agnostic. Additionally, he has repeatedly stated, "We only have this one life."
If he were Catholic, then he would speak of "the life everlasting" (heaven). And, he would recognize Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, which he does not do.
If he were Jewish, he would state what type of follower he is: i.e. Orthodox, Conservative or Reformed.
He believes in evolution and does not believe that the world was created in Seven days.
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What...z22DdGyeM1
written by alex , July 31, 2012
His father was baptized Catholic and his mother was raised Jewish. However, his upbringing was largely secular. He said that he appreciates religions for the the way it provides a community. When asked if he believes in God, he replied, "It's a complicated question. Yes, to some extent."
This answer puts him in the category of Agnostic. Additionally, he has repeatedly stated, "We only have this one life."
If he were Catholic, then he would speak of "the life everlasting" (heaven). And, he would recognize Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, which he does not do.
If he were Jewish, he would state what type of follower he is: i.e. Orthodox, Conservative or Reformed.
He believes in evolution and does not believe that the world was created in Seven days.
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What...z22DdGyeM1
written by Truthseeker , August 01, 2012
HARKAT
You said
ALSO KORAN IS UNSCIENTIFIC IMMORAL AND TOTALLY OUT OF SYNC LIKE TORAH-TALMUD0BIBLE.
For goodness sake I have tried telling you before, do you not listen?? READ THE BIBLE BEFORE YOU MAKE SUCH ERRANT AND IGNORANT JUDGEMENTS. Please do not blaspheme the one true God by comparing our holy Word to the Koran
You said
ALSO KORAN IS UNSCIENTIFIC IMMORAL AND TOTALLY OUT OF SYNC LIKE TORAH-TALMUD0BIBLE.
For goodness sake I have tried telling you before, do you not listen?? READ THE BIBLE BEFORE YOU MAKE SUCH ERRANT AND IGNORANT JUDGEMENTS. Please do not blaspheme the one true God by comparing our holy Word to the Koran
written by Hogrider , August 01, 2012
And the Umah says war is continual, until the entire world is a caliph.
written by Bingo , August 01, 2012
A non-believer is one who does not believe in Allah and Islam and usually has a kaffir name. So screening becomes an easy art for Muslims.
I am at loss to comprehend Allah's sentences. Once he says not to make friends with non-believers. Elsewhere, as you quoted he tells Muslims to be nice to non-believers. However, Allah also asks Muslims to slay idolators wherever they find them after the sacred months have passed. If I am worshiping Buddha idol, I might be killed by Muslims in the months after Ramadan!
I am sure Muslims will be in confusion after reading Quran. Hope you are not.
I am at loss to comprehend Allah's sentences. Once he says not to make friends with non-believers. Elsewhere, as you quoted he tells Muslims to be nice to non-believers. However, Allah also asks Muslims to slay idolators wherever they find them after the sacred months have passed. If I am worshiping Buddha idol, I might be killed by Muslims in the months after Ramadan!
I am sure Muslims will be in confusion after reading Quran. Hope you are not.
written by Reed Wilson. , August 01, 2012
Bingo. You write "However, Allah also asks Muslims to slay idolaters wherever they find them after the sacred months have passed.
Why to wait that long? If you refer sura 9 which is normally referred, this instruction is for the ongoing battle.
I recite two verses for you
1.Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, and do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. 2:190.
2.Permission to take up arms is hereby granted to those who are attacked; they have suffered injustice. God has all the power to give victory. 22:39
Bingo, I am a Quran follower. I didnt kill any. Dont you have Muslim friends?
At another place Quran says
نَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَىٰ وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّـهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
Surely they that believe, Jews, Christians, and converts, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness -- their wage awaits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them; neither shall they sorrow. 2:62
You also dont have to fear. Didnt you see how Allah punished Taliban, through US, for blasting Bamiyan Budha?
If I am worshiping Buddha idol, I might be killed by Muslims in the months after Ramadan!
Why to wait that long? If you refer sura 9 which is normally referred, this instruction is for the ongoing battle.
I recite two verses for you
1.Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, and do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. 2:190.
2.Permission to take up arms is hereby granted to those who are attacked; they have suffered injustice. God has all the power to give victory. 22:39
Bingo, I am a Quran follower. I didnt kill any. Dont you have Muslim friends?
At another place Quran says
نَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَىٰ وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّـهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
Surely they that believe, Jews, Christians, and converts, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness -- their wage awaits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them; neither shall they sorrow. 2:62
You also dont have to fear. Didnt you see how Allah punished Taliban, through US, for blasting Bamiyan Budha?
If I am worshiping Buddha idol, I might be killed by Muslims in the months after Ramadan!
written by American Patriot , August 01, 2012
This concerns me, is Barack Hussein Obama practicing Islam? He seems to be doing many things Christians don't do, such as lie, accuse others falsely, promote homosexuality, say things like 'my Muslim faith' and so many other things.
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , August 01, 2012
TO : TRUTHSEEKER - BIBLE IS A PACK OF LIES.
www.evilbible.com
many more sites expose bibe.its unscientific like koran.jehoba/allah is imaginary.
that is all.
written by Bingo , August 01, 2012
Here is 9:05- But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Based on Quran tell us the reason behind the attack on pagan Indians by the Arab Muslims starting from 8th century? Muhammed Qasim, Ghori, Ghaznavi, and Persian Muslims plundered and destroyed pagan temples and monuments. Were those Muslims wrong or did they misunderstand Quran?
Bingo, I am a Quran follower. I didnt kill any. Dont you have Muslim friends?
-- Yes I do have Muslim friends, some of them childhood friends. However, after studying Quran I have stopped trusting them. I am very careful with bearded Muslims.
You also dont have to fear. Didnt you see how Allah punished Taliban, through US, for blasting Bamiyan Budha?
-- What punishment did Prophet Muhammed get for destroying the idols of Kaaba? Kaaba belonged to pagans. Muhammed took control of Kaaba by force, destroyed all idols except the black stone. Shouldn't he be punished?
Based on Quran tell us the reason behind the attack on pagan Indians by the Arab Muslims starting from 8th century? Muhammed Qasim, Ghori, Ghaznavi, and Persian Muslims plundered and destroyed pagan temples and monuments. Were those Muslims wrong or did they misunderstand Quran?
Bingo, I am a Quran follower. I didnt kill any. Dont you have Muslim friends?
-- Yes I do have Muslim friends, some of them childhood friends. However, after studying Quran I have stopped trusting them. I am very careful with bearded Muslims.
You also dont have to fear. Didnt you see how Allah punished Taliban, through US, for blasting Bamiyan Budha?
-- What punishment did Prophet Muhammed get for destroying the idols of Kaaba? Kaaba belonged to pagans. Muhammed took control of Kaaba by force, destroyed all idols except the black stone. Shouldn't he be punished?
written by Reed Wilson. , August 01, 2012
Bingo. You write " Based on Quran tell us the reason behind the attack on pagan Indians by the Arab Muslims starting from 8th century? Muhammed Qasim, Ghori, Ghaznavi, and Persian Muslims plundered and destroyed pagan temples and monuments. Were those Muslims wrong or did they misunderstand Quran?
The verse has a background given there. What MBQasim, Ghouri, Ghaznavi did was not Islam. It was politics. Some Persians like, Tabri, Kathir, Bukhari, Tirmidhi, Bahiqi, Muslim, Abu D'ood, Ibn Maja etc has done great damage to Islam. They have influenced and corrupted the message of God. Allah will question their followers.
"Yes I do have Muslim friends, some of them childhood friends. However, after studying Quran I have stopped trusting them. I am very careful with bearded Muslims."
So you started the hatred though you dont have such message!! Ask them to shave their beards.
"What punishment did Prophet Muhammed get for destroying the idols of Kaaba? Kaaba belonged to pagans. Muhammed took control of Kaaba by force, destroyed all idols except the black stone. Shouldn't he be punished?
I dont know the exact circumstances and what is available is not trustworthy. I dont know the history of black stone either. No sanctity is given to Kaba and the stone in Quran.
Thank you for the post. At least you should have agreed that Taliban were punished. You are not suggestible:)-
The verse has a background given there. What MBQasim, Ghouri, Ghaznavi did was not Islam. It was politics. Some Persians like, Tabri, Kathir, Bukhari, Tirmidhi, Bahiqi, Muslim, Abu D'ood, Ibn Maja etc has done great damage to Islam. They have influenced and corrupted the message of God. Allah will question their followers.
"Yes I do have Muslim friends, some of them childhood friends. However, after studying Quran I have stopped trusting them. I am very careful with bearded Muslims."
So you started the hatred though you dont have such message!! Ask them to shave their beards.
"What punishment did Prophet Muhammed get for destroying the idols of Kaaba? Kaaba belonged to pagans. Muhammed took control of Kaaba by force, destroyed all idols except the black stone. Shouldn't he be punished?
I dont know the exact circumstances and what is available is not trustworthy. I dont know the history of black stone either. No sanctity is given to Kaba and the stone in Quran.
Thank you for the post. At least you should have agreed that Taliban were punished. You are not suggestible:)-
written by Walter Sieruk , August 01, 2012
Loius Palme explains about the meaning of the Islamic words takiyya, tawriya, kitman,and muuna.
He wrote that "Each of these words describes a different style of deception used by Muslims when discissing Islam...Western civilzations are not accustomed to dealing with people, who have deleoped deception into an art form." Such deception is the Quranic or Islamic way.
In contrast to this the Bible teaches "the folly of fools is deceit."
Proverbs 14:8. [KJV]
He wrote that "Each of these words describes a different style of deception used by Muslims when discissing Islam...Western civilzations are not accustomed to dealing with people, who have deleoped deception into an art form." Such deception is the Quranic or Islamic way.
In contrast to this the Bible teaches "the folly of fools is deceit."
Proverbs 14:8. [KJV]
written by fineliving56 , August 01, 2012
According to this Aya … all Muslim emigrates, to all Kufars counties, like in America and England …etc … are nothing but *Kufar Muslims* who are not fallowing what Quran order them to do in 3/28 and others like it …
Most Muslims around me, prefer to do business dealing with American people from different religions then Muslims from their own countries, due to rivalry, fear of cheating, different sects Muslims which the biggest reason they do not deal together … etc …
My niece in law, married a devout Muslim sunni doctor, who Lived in Chicago until he finished his residency . they lived in a rented apartment building, where only a few apartment a way from another Muslim Dirzy [ a minority Muslims in Syria who do not believe all other Muslims believe but he and his newly married wife were nice and friendly and also My husband's and I friends] , when we went to visit my husband nice, we suggested to walk down the hall, and visit our Dirzy friends who are also their neighbors. Right away, the husband refused … so we asked, why ? …he is your neighbor and Syrian what is the problem, … he replied, he is a dirzy Muslim and he is a Kafir and I do not want anything to do with him …
hypocrisy anyone !
Most Muslims around me, prefer to do business dealing with American people from different religions then Muslims from their own countries, due to rivalry, fear of cheating, different sects Muslims which the biggest reason they do not deal together … etc …
My niece in law, married a devout Muslim sunni doctor, who Lived in Chicago until he finished his residency . they lived in a rented apartment building, where only a few apartment a way from another Muslim Dirzy [ a minority Muslims in Syria who do not believe all other Muslims believe but he and his newly married wife were nice and friendly and also My husband's and I friends] , when we went to visit my husband nice, we suggested to walk down the hall, and visit our Dirzy friends who are also their neighbors. Right away, the husband refused … so we asked, why ? …he is your neighbor and Syrian what is the problem, … he replied, he is a dirzy Muslim and he is a Kafir and I do not want anything to do with him …
hypocrisy anyone !
written by Truthseeker , August 01, 2012
No...read the bible for yourself and look up some legitimate sites on it. not a site of ignorant fools. I know that site and they dont know the bible from the funny papers.
TRy these sites
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/bible-archaeology.htm
http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/
http://www.allabouttruth.org/is-the-bible-true-c.htm
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html
STOP BLINDING YOURSELF TO THE TRUTH AND TALK TO PEOPLE AND READ SITES FROM PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
TRy these sites
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/bible-archaeology.htm
http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/
http://www.allabouttruth.org/is-the-bible-true-c.htm
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html
STOP BLINDING YOURSELF TO THE TRUTH AND TALK TO PEOPLE AND READ SITES FROM PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
written by Xyz , August 02, 2012
"Here is 9:05- But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. "
Dear Reed Wilson please clear my confusion
What if the fighting is held during forbidden months, what if the Kauffar attack Muslims during the forbidden months. As per your translation this verse only applies during war or fight. I believe not because logic says there should be NO Forbidden Months for the war. Why would Allah forbid Muslims ( during such months) from fighting but just get killed by kaffirs?
Dear Reed Wilson please clear my confusion
What if the fighting is held during forbidden months, what if the Kauffar attack Muslims during the forbidden months. As per your translation this verse only applies during war or fight. I believe not because logic says there should be NO Forbidden Months for the war. Why would Allah forbid Muslims ( during such months) from fighting but just get killed by kaffirs?
written by Reed Wilson. , August 02, 2012
Dear Xyz. I am giving you translation of verses 9:1-6
(This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement. (1) So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers. (2) And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve. (3) Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful of their duty. (4) So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (5) And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. (6)
It is not my translation and I am copying Shakirs's translation available on net. You may follow any translation. There are several available.
My friend, you have to read the verses ahead also or the entire sura to understand.
The book is for you and you have to ponder. It should be simple because it is addressed to common man and not to scholars as they may claim.
(This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement. (1) So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers. (2) And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve. (3) Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful of their duty. (4) So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (5) And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. (6)
It is not my translation and I am copying Shakirs's translation available on net. You may follow any translation. There are several available.
My friend, you have to read the verses ahead also or the entire sura to understand.
The book is for you and you have to ponder. It should be simple because it is addressed to common man and not to scholars as they may claim.
written by Bingo , August 02, 2012
Dear Reed,
Majority of Muslims live in us vs them philosophy. In a group of Muslims very could be nice like you, but majority of them loath infidels. Few of my close Muslim friends objected to my praying to Buddha. Their reason is that Buddha didn't believe in God, but Muhammad did. So, Muhammad's religion is the only true religion. Jews and Christians have corrupted scriptures, Hindus are idolators-----this is majority of Muslims' opinion. If I said something negative about Muhammad, they behave like wild animals. My view is : Quran is the source of animosity.
Did Muhammad build kaaba? He confiscated it from pagans. There were 360 idols other than the black stone. Quran mentions Al-lat & Al-Mannat.
I am of the opinion that Islam should cease to exist for it is causing evil to society in the name of religion.
Majority of Muslims live in us vs them philosophy. In a group of Muslims very could be nice like you, but majority of them loath infidels. Few of my close Muslim friends objected to my praying to Buddha. Their reason is that Buddha didn't believe in God, but Muhammad did. So, Muhammad's religion is the only true religion. Jews and Christians have corrupted scriptures, Hindus are idolators-----this is majority of Muslims' opinion. If I said something negative about Muhammad, they behave like wild animals. My view is : Quran is the source of animosity.
Did Muhammad build kaaba? He confiscated it from pagans. There were 360 idols other than the black stone. Quran mentions Al-lat & Al-Mannat.
I am of the opinion that Islam should cease to exist for it is causing evil to society in the name of religion.
written by Guy Macher , August 02, 2012
So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
I wonder if the resident liar would live under those rules if the tables were turned. Reject Satan, aka Allah. Pray to Jesus and pay protection money.
I know the answer. And so does every informed and proud kafir.
I wonder if the resident liar would live under those rules if the tables were turned. Reject Satan, aka Allah. Pray to Jesus and pay protection money.
I know the answer. And so does every informed and proud kafir.
written by malem , August 02, 2012
Where is the deception? The Quran spells out everything clealry to those willing to actually read it. It does not require deception, perhaps the author meant that due to his miss understanding he felt deceived, yet he was not. Islam is a peaceful and wonderous religion and open to all!!
written by Reed Wilson. , August 02, 2012
malem. " Where is the deception? The Quran spells out everything clealry to those willing to actually read it." Quran says:
Tell them: “It (Quran) is a guidance and a healing to the believers. But to those who do not believe, it serves as a plug in their ears and a covering over their eyes. It is as if they are being called from a place far away. 41:44
Tell them: “It (Quran) is a guidance and a healing to the believers. But to those who do not believe, it serves as a plug in their ears and a covering over their eyes. It is as if they are being called from a place far away. 41:44
written by Reed Wilson. , August 02, 2012
Guy Macher. "So when the sacred months have passed away,...." 9:5.
A verse is a sentence which is not always complete message. My friends put a full stop rather foolstop there. There is a complete story with logic and charge sheet.
When proceed a little further we find at 9:13
Will you not fight against those who broke their pledges and did all they could to drive the Messenger away and initiated hostilities against you? Do you fear them? Surely Allah has greater right that you should fear Him, if you are true believers.
So they initiated hostilities. Broke agreement. Believers are reluctant to fight with them.
Proper ultimatum of four months was given to them so that they reconsider their pledges.
Four forbidden months of hajj was a preQuran practice, which were equally honorable for both believers and non believers.
Hajj takes only 3/4 days and can be performed on any dates of these months.
Hadis has altered this practice and it is now one congregation in 8-10 of the month Zilhijj.
A verse is a sentence which is not always complete message. My friends put a full stop rather foolstop there. There is a complete story with logic and charge sheet.
When proceed a little further we find at 9:13
Will you not fight against those who broke their pledges and did all they could to drive the Messenger away and initiated hostilities against you? Do you fear them? Surely Allah has greater right that you should fear Him, if you are true believers.
So they initiated hostilities. Broke agreement. Believers are reluctant to fight with them.
Proper ultimatum of four months was given to them so that they reconsider their pledges.
Four forbidden months of hajj was a preQuran practice, which were equally honorable for both believers and non believers.
Hajj takes only 3/4 days and can be performed on any dates of these months.
Hadis has altered this practice and it is now one congregation in 8-10 of the month Zilhijj.
written by Reed Wilson. , August 02, 2012
Dear Bingo. "In a group of Muslims very could be nice like you",
You think so? May be you see your own reflection.
"Few of my close Muslim friends objected to my praying to Buddha. Their reason is that Buddha didn't believe in God, but Muhammad did".
They are not asked to do that. Lord Buddha believed in one Supreme Power. Quran has endorsed sending his message to all people. Your friends could convey Quran but, purhaps, they are ignorant of Quran.
"Did Muhammad build kaaba? He confiscated it from pagans. There were 360 idols other than the black stone. Quran mentions Al-lat & Al-Mannat".
I have no report of 360 idols. Kaaba came under control of believers after the battles, I think, the battles discussed in Sura 9. You can find some discussion on this page also.
"I am of the opinion that Islam should cease to exist for it is causing evil to society in the name of religion."
You have a right to have your opinion. Beware, opinions change.
written by dead or alive , August 02, 2012
But to those who do not belive,it serves as a plug in their ears and a covering over their ears.Primitive people think this why.
written by fineliving56 , August 02, 2012
You do it again …
You bring proof FROM QURAN to proof Quran IS authentic .
Don't you see, how the Muslims who wrote Quran * FORSAW the problem of Muslims NOT BELIEVING them about Quran's authenticity … so, they try to give excuses in Quran by,* JUMPING AHEAD and conclude that, non believers *will not believe* because they have plugs in there ears and cover over their eyes … like in Q 41/44
Dont you see … the Muslims were only covering all basses … just incase ……
don't you see the manipulations ?!
A God, would not need to use such plain words, humen have used, and it was *a plain Arabic saying* long before Quran was ever a thought .
How can you NOT see such plain proof of Quran's falsity?!
Reed … I am sorry … it looks like you are the one, who has the cover over your eyes and the plugs in your ears .
You bring proof FROM QURAN to proof Quran IS authentic .
Don't you see, how the Muslims who wrote Quran * FORSAW the problem of Muslims NOT BELIEVING them about Quran's authenticity … so, they try to give excuses in Quran by,* JUMPING AHEAD and conclude that, non believers *will not believe* because they have plugs in there ears and cover over their eyes … like in Q 41/44
Dont you see … the Muslims were only covering all basses … just incase ……
don't you see the manipulations ?!
A God, would not need to use such plain words, humen have used, and it was *a plain Arabic saying* long before Quran was ever a thought .
How can you NOT see such plain proof of Quran's falsity?!
Reed … I am sorry … it looks like you are the one, who has the cover over your eyes and the plugs in your ears .
written by Brown Superman , August 02, 2012
You said that you are a Koran follower and have not killed any.
Does that mean you are rejecting that stupid request from Allah, or is it that you would reject the Koran just to stay put from being jailed as murder would invite life imprisonment?
Both ways, you are an infidel, aren't you.
Does that mean you are rejecting that stupid request from Allah, or is it that you would reject the Koran just to stay put from being jailed as murder would invite life imprisonment?
Both ways, you are an infidel, aren't you.
written by Guy Macher , August 03, 2012
Muslims out there, tell me if you think that being forced to acknowledge Christ as Lord, to be forced to pay protection money, and to be forced to contribute to good Christian works is fair.
written by Bingo , August 03, 2012
They are not asked to do that. Lord Buddha believed in one Supreme Power. Quran has endorsed sending his message to all people. Your friends could convey Quran but, purhaps, they are ignorant of Quran.
-- Buddha did not believe in the existence of soul or God (Supreme power). He denied the existence of God, according to all his scriptures. Islam trampled and destroyed countless Buddhist monasteries and Universities. Heard of Nalanda and Taxshila universities that were ruined by Muslims? Qoran relegates idol worshippers to the lowest category. If someone worships the idol of Buddha it is unbearable to Muslims. This hate message is borne out of Qoran.
I have no report of 360 idols. Kaaba came under control of believers after the battles, I think, the battles discussed in Sura 9. You can find some discussion on this page also.
-- What was the necessary to wage battles to get a worship place under control? Shouldn't Quran explain the history behind that? If it cannot explain then hadith and other scriptures explain that bit in detail. Why Qoran is full of believers vs non-believers theory. Why should non-believers end up in hell? Do you think all non-believers such as scientists and atheists end up in hell just because they do not believe in God/Allah?
Buddhism and Hinduism have provided meditation techniques, yoga, and other valuable gifts to the world. There is a message of peace in Jesus and Bahaullah's teachings. Zoroasterism and Confucianism have some great teachings.
What has Islam given to the world in the last 1400 years. War, plunder, rape, and mayhem in the name of Allah. It is continuing even today. If true Islam, according to you, has not been practiced in any country in the last 1400 years then it is an impracticle philosophy. I think it is better to remain a kaffir than to become a Muslim.
-- Buddha did not believe in the existence of soul or God (Supreme power). He denied the existence of God, according to all his scriptures. Islam trampled and destroyed countless Buddhist monasteries and Universities. Heard of Nalanda and Taxshila universities that were ruined by Muslims? Qoran relegates idol worshippers to the lowest category. If someone worships the idol of Buddha it is unbearable to Muslims. This hate message is borne out of Qoran.
I have no report of 360 idols. Kaaba came under control of believers after the battles, I think, the battles discussed in Sura 9. You can find some discussion on this page also.
-- What was the necessary to wage battles to get a worship place under control? Shouldn't Quran explain the history behind that? If it cannot explain then hadith and other scriptures explain that bit in detail. Why Qoran is full of believers vs non-believers theory. Why should non-believers end up in hell? Do you think all non-believers such as scientists and atheists end up in hell just because they do not believe in God/Allah?
Buddhism and Hinduism have provided meditation techniques, yoga, and other valuable gifts to the world. There is a message of peace in Jesus and Bahaullah's teachings. Zoroasterism and Confucianism have some great teachings.
What has Islam given to the world in the last 1400 years. War, plunder, rape, and mayhem in the name of Allah. It is continuing even today. If true Islam, according to you, has not been practiced in any country in the last 1400 years then it is an impracticle philosophy. I think it is better to remain a kaffir than to become a Muslim.
written by Malem , August 03, 2012
You state Allah would not use certain words, do you know him? have you spoken with him? Has he told you he only uses certain words? You do not believe in him thus you are deaf to his calling, if you cannot hear him you have no claim ti what he says. Nice try though, good luck! Peace
written by Reed Wilson. , August 03, 2012
Bingo.
The Concept of God
Generally, we use the term 'God' to designate a supreme power, who is the creator of the entire universe and the chief law-giver for the humans. The God or Almighty is considered to be concerned with the welfare of His creations and the 'moksha' or salvation for those who follow His dictates. Different religions and sects follow the God differently by different names, but as far as Buddhism is concerned, it has a different perception for Him
Source:
http://www.buddhist-tourism.com/buddhism/god-in-buddhism.html
The Concept of God
Generally, we use the term 'God' to designate a supreme power, who is the creator of the entire universe and the chief law-giver for the humans. The God or Almighty is considered to be concerned with the welfare of His creations and the 'moksha' or salvation for those who follow His dictates. Different religions and sects follow the God differently by different names, but as far as Buddhism is concerned, it has a different perception for Him
Source:
http://www.buddhist-tourism.com/buddhism/god-in-buddhism.html
written by Reed Wilson. , August 04, 2012
fineliving56.You write " Please when it comes to Quran's Arabic and Arabic language in whole, do not make your post sound so certain and make it as facts."
What an innocent desire!!
You dont want to see me here?
What an innocent desire!!
You dont want to see me here?
written by fineliving56 , August 04, 2012
Who said I do not want you here …
It's , just I hoped after a while of your absence, you did not take the Arabic language as robot and you, really thought of what you are writing, in order for your posts would to make sense to us .
How could you translate Arabic words in Quran, without giveing a thought of the words around them? … you do that all the time .
I have a Question ..
If Q / 111… is NOT talking about Abu Lahab the uncle of Muhammad ,as you are saying … what is it, talking about instead ?? …
Can you translate this Surah for Us … "' in your own words "' …please
It's , just I hoped after a while of your absence, you did not take the Arabic language as robot and you, really thought of what you are writing, in order for your posts would to make sense to us .
How could you translate Arabic words in Quran, without giveing a thought of the words around them? … you do that all the time .
I have a Question ..
If Q / 111… is NOT talking about Abu Lahab the uncle of Muhammad ,as you are saying … what is it, talking about instead ?? …
Can you translate this Surah for Us … "' in your own words "' …please
written by Bingo , August 04, 2012
Dear Reed, I am quoting from the website you have mentioned.
1) The Buddhist system of religion do not believe in the concept of a personal God. The theory of Buddhism rejects the notion of an abstract principle of God operating in the universe. They rather believe that the concept of God is a response to fear and frustration.
2)Thirdly, the Buddhists argue that belief in God is not necessary to have a happy and meaningful life as there are millions of Buddhists, atheists and free thinkers who are happy without belief in God.
3)..in Buddhism, there is simply no place for a God even if one exists.
4) The concept of Buddhism refutes the idea of a God, who throws the sinners into everlasting torments. [This is in direct contrast with what Allah does to non-believers. Doesn't Quran mention that non-believers end up in everlasting hell?
5) Even the Buddha had said, " No one saves us but ourselves, No one can and no one may! We ourselves must walk the path, but Buddhas clearly show the way.
So, the teachings of Buddhism contradict Islamic teachings. Allah throws non-believers in hell forever. This does not exist in Buddhism. Muhammed is the mediator between believers and heaven gate. Gate-crashers from kaffir groups are not allowed. Buddhism is not Islam. They are diametrically opposite.
I rest my case on comparison between Buddhism and Islam
1) The Buddhist system of religion do not believe in the concept of a personal God. The theory of Buddhism rejects the notion of an abstract principle of God operating in the universe. They rather believe that the concept of God is a response to fear and frustration.
2)Thirdly, the Buddhists argue that belief in God is not necessary to have a happy and meaningful life as there are millions of Buddhists, atheists and free thinkers who are happy without belief in God.
3)..in Buddhism, there is simply no place for a God even if one exists.
4) The concept of Buddhism refutes the idea of a God, who throws the sinners into everlasting torments. [This is in direct contrast with what Allah does to non-believers. Doesn't Quran mention that non-believers end up in everlasting hell?
5) Even the Buddha had said, " No one saves us but ourselves, No one can and no one may! We ourselves must walk the path, but Buddhas clearly show the way.
So, the teachings of Buddhism contradict Islamic teachings. Allah throws non-believers in hell forever. This does not exist in Buddhism. Muhammed is the mediator between believers and heaven gate. Gate-crashers from kaffir groups are not allowed. Buddhism is not Islam. They are diametrically opposite.
I rest my case on comparison between Buddhism and Islam
written by Reed Wilson. , August 04, 2012
Bingo. I have read what you presented above. It seems a sub set of Islam.
You write "So, the teachings of Buddhism contradict Islamic teachings. Allah throws non-believers in hell forever. This does not exist in Buddhism. Muhammed is the mediator between believers and heaven gate. Gate-crashers from kaffir groups are not allowed. Buddhism is not Islam. They are diametrically opposite."
It would be 'contradiction' if Budhism would say Allah will NOT throw non believers to hell. It is silent there.
There can be muslims among Buddhists. Christian missionaries find Buddhists easier for vending Christianity.
In Bataan, Philippines, I have seen treatment camps where Buddhists from Combodia, Laos, Vietnam destined for US, were given briefing by missionaries. Since they didnt have a God, they readily accepted a God. No stakes.
(I am talking of the year 1981)
You write "So, the teachings of Buddhism contradict Islamic teachings. Allah throws non-believers in hell forever. This does not exist in Buddhism. Muhammed is the mediator between believers and heaven gate. Gate-crashers from kaffir groups are not allowed. Buddhism is not Islam. They are diametrically opposite."
It would be 'contradiction' if Budhism would say Allah will NOT throw non believers to hell. It is silent there.
There can be muslims among Buddhists. Christian missionaries find Buddhists easier for vending Christianity.
In Bataan, Philippines, I have seen treatment camps where Buddhists from Combodia, Laos, Vietnam destined for US, were given briefing by missionaries. Since they didnt have a God, they readily accepted a God. No stakes.
(I am talking of the year 1981)
written by Reed Wilson. , August 04, 2012
fineliving. Even without your saying 'please' I will do what I can.
You ask"How could you translate Arabic words in Quran, without giveing a thought of the words around them? … you do that all the time" .
I dont use my Arabic for translating Quran. I keep it in my tummy. I use the readymade translations available on net. When you object you do so for the translators.
I have a Question ..
"If Q / 111… is NOT talking about Abu Lahab the uncle of Muhammad ,as you are saying … what is it, talking about instead ?? …
I answered it already for somebody on this page. To you also I said abu is used as title to aggrandize certain attribute. Here it may be great flame or fire.
"Can you translate this Surah for Us … "' in your own words "'
When you come to verse 3 you come across another lahab which always translated as big flame. This Lahab is not Lahabuncle.
You ask"How could you translate Arabic words in Quran, without giveing a thought of the words around them? … you do that all the time" .
I dont use my Arabic for translating Quran. I keep it in my tummy. I use the readymade translations available on net. When you object you do so for the translators.
I have a Question ..
"If Q / 111… is NOT talking about Abu Lahab the uncle of Muhammad ,as you are saying … what is it, talking about instead ?? …
I answered it already for somebody on this page. To you also I said abu is used as title to aggrandize certain attribute. Here it may be great flame or fire.
"Can you translate this Surah for Us … "' in your own words "'
When you come to verse 3 you come across another lahab which always translated as big flame. This Lahab is not Lahabuncle.
written by fineliving56 , August 04, 2012
Can you translated it , fully … as it came in Quran
Even if you have done that before …translated again …
it is short and it does not take time
Try your best …. please
Even if you have done that before …translated again …
it is short and it does not take time
Try your best …. please
written by fineliving56 , August 04, 2012
All the English trancaltions I have, DO SAY [ ABU LAHAB ] in parentheses when translating Surah 111
The first one is ..trancaltion by Professor, DR, Syed Vickar Ahmad .
The second on is done by …Dr, Ahmad zidan and MRS Dina zidan '' The glorious Quran .
Both … mentioned Abu Lahab …. the same Abu Lahab came in Lasmic History books .
The first one is ..trancaltion by Professor, DR, Syed Vickar Ahmad .
The second on is done by …Dr, Ahmad zidan and MRS Dina zidan '' The glorious Quran .
Both … mentioned Abu Lahab …. the same Abu Lahab came in Lasmic History books .
written by Reed Wilson. , August 05, 2012
Reed … you are wrong about …Quran 111
fineliving56 You say Reed … you are wrong about …Quran 111 and prove that RW was right.
"All the English trancaltions I have, DO SAY [ ABU LAHAB ] in parentheses when translating Surah 111".
There you are. In parenthesis. Why in parenthesis?
You are honest f. You could write "All the English translations I have, DO SAY ABU LAHAB when translating Surah 111", ignoring parentheses.
And what do they translate سَيَصْلَىٰ نَارًا ذَاتَ لَهَبٍ
Is this lahab is also auncle Lahab?
He was not father of any lahab and you told me he had his own different name.
You understand every thing. I think this AL already taken our too much of attention.
fineliving56 You say Reed … you are wrong about …Quran 111 and prove that RW was right.
"All the English trancaltions I have, DO SAY [ ABU LAHAB ] in parentheses when translating Surah 111".
There you are. In parenthesis. Why in parenthesis?
You are honest f. You could write "All the English translations I have, DO SAY ABU LAHAB when translating Surah 111", ignoring parentheses.
And what do they translate سَيَصْلَىٰ نَارًا ذَاتَ لَهَبٍ
Is this lahab is also auncle Lahab?
He was not father of any lahab and you told me he had his own different name.
You understand every thing. I think this AL already taken our too much of attention.
written by fineliving56 , August 05, 2012
I am at the end of my rope with you ... I am not Joking !!!
Reed ...
The parenthesis was in THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION ... but in the actual Surah in Quran it self *** it does SAY '' ABU Lahab
I repeat ... in the Surah 111 ...111/1 IT DOSE CLEARLY SAY ...ABU LAHAB ...
here is the words of Q 111 in English letter ...
'' 1- Tabbat yada *Abi Lahab * Wa tab
'' 2... Ma Agna Annhu Malahu Wama Kasab .
'' 3 ... Sayasla naran zata * LAHAB *
'' 4 .. Fi gidiha habl min masad .
As you can read ... Abi Lahab is clearly included in the Aya ''1 ''... then in Aya ''3'' Abi ... was NOT included so Quran was NOT talking about Abi Lahab in it ...it was talking about FLAME OF FIRE .
so again ... first lahab was a name ... the second Lahab is a flame of fire
translation is not need it as you can read
Kindly Reed ... can you translate Q/ 111 .. in your own words as you understand it ...I asked before and you ignore it .. I just want to pin point where you are lost .. !!!!!!??????
Reed ...
The parenthesis was in THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION ... but in the actual Surah in Quran it self *** it does SAY '' ABU Lahab
I repeat ... in the Surah 111 ...111/1 IT DOSE CLEARLY SAY ...ABU LAHAB ...
here is the words of Q 111 in English letter ...
'' 1- Tabbat yada *Abi Lahab * Wa tab
'' 2... Ma Agna Annhu Malahu Wama Kasab .
'' 3 ... Sayasla naran zata * LAHAB *
'' 4 .. Fi gidiha habl min masad .
As you can read ... Abi Lahab is clearly included in the Aya ''1 ''... then in Aya ''3'' Abi ... was NOT included so Quran was NOT talking about Abi Lahab in it ...it was talking about FLAME OF FIRE .
so again ... first lahab was a name ... the second Lahab is a flame of fire
translation is not need it as you can read
Kindly Reed ... can you translate Q/ 111 .. in your own words as you understand it ...I asked before and you ignore it .. I just want to pin point where you are lost .. !!!!!!??????
written by Reed Wilson. , August 05, 2012
fineliving. The parenthesis was not meaningless. The Arabic knowing translator knows that Abi lahab is aggrandizement of flame or fire and allegory.
Parenthesis is not by chance or by mistake. Who used parenthesis?
God is not relating story of a person that too so sketchy. All suras in that para are dreary and scary.
Broken hands shows helplessness of one, who however wealthy and held
high position, will be consigned to flames of hell due to his evil deeds.
If you believe uncle theory, it is up to you.
Parenthesis is not by chance or by mistake. Who used parenthesis?
God is not relating story of a person that too so sketchy. All suras in that para are dreary and scary.
Broken hands shows helplessness of one, who however wealthy and held
high position, will be consigned to flames of hell due to his evil deeds.
If you believe uncle theory, it is up to you.
written by fineliving56 , August 05, 2012
I asked directly, few times, now, to translate Q 111 …in your own words and you predictably, AVOIDED doing that …
And the reason is …YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IN THE HECK IS THE MEANS OF IT ..
Without the background of hadeeth to shed a light on it … it has no meaning at all … and you knew that and that is why you are AVOIDING translating it .
The Quran said '' Abi Lahab ''…
Abi is a father of …
so it is a name …
Flame has no father …have you heard of such a thing? … WOW
I will leave you with this ...
There is a mention of a wife …a women … in 111 … .""who caries the wood "" … Have you ever heard of a flame who has a wife ? ….. hahaha
You Reed have been exposed for long time of your lack of understanding of Quran … and now you confirmed to me and to all .
Thanks
And the reason is …YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IN THE HECK IS THE MEANS OF IT ..
Without the background of hadeeth to shed a light on it … it has no meaning at all … and you knew that and that is why you are AVOIDING translating it .
The Quran said '' Abi Lahab ''…
Abi is a father of …
so it is a name …
Flame has no father …have you heard of such a thing? … WOW
I will leave you with this ...
There is a mention of a wife …a women … in 111 … .""who caries the wood "" … Have you ever heard of a flame who has a wife ? ….. hahaha
You Reed have been exposed for long time of your lack of understanding of Quran … and now you confirmed to me and to all .
Thanks
written by Bingo , August 05, 2012
It would be 'contradiction' if Budhism would say Allah will NOT throw non believers to hell. It is silent there.
-- Dear Reed, in academia this is called flawed argument. Firstly, Buddhism does not believe in any God. Secondly, there is no concept of eternal hell in Buddhism. With these given parameters, how can you expect Buddhist literature to say God/Allah will/will NOT throw non-believers to hell?
No God, no hell; where is the question of God throwing non believers to hell? am I right?
written by Bingo , August 05, 2012
Mr. Reed,
I am following the exchange of information between you and fineliving. I too feel you are avoiding full translation of the verse. To settle the matter once for all you need to translate verse 111. We will get to know about Abu Lahab.
I am following the exchange of information between you and fineliving. I too feel you are avoiding full translation of the verse. To settle the matter once for all you need to translate verse 111. We will get to know about Abu Lahab.
written by Kafirwala , August 05, 2012
Dear Fineliving, the fact is that this comedian, Reed Wilson does not know what is it all about in Q sura 111. So to wriggle out, he is using the easiest way, saying there is no story or anything or no allusion, but only a warning to the people. But, what is the warning, this moron does not seem to know. What is the context of the warning? He has no answer. He says lahab is flaming fire only and Abu is a parenthesis only, no reference to any person. Then why there is reference of Abu Lahab's wife, you may ask. He has still no answer. May be that is also another parenthesis. This kind of tactics only he is adept at displaying here. Verbal jugglery it is called. From the very beginning also this cunning fellow has been like this. Most dishonest and partisan and no qualms in telling any number of lies.
written by fineliving56 , August 05, 2012
Without the input of Hadeeth and Sirah , Q / Surah 111 , becomes meaningless and just a bunch of words that rimes, done for the sake of rhythm and beauty of the book.
As you can see, Reed is in a dilemma that is why he avoids translating Q/111 …
---- if he agrees that ''Abi Lahab '' is the nick name of Muhammad' s uncle [ like it actuly is ] he has to admit he was wrong about Hadeeth role in Quran …. otherwise , the meaning of does not make any sense .
On the other hand …
--- if he disagree with '' Abi Lahab '' being a nick name of Muhammad's uncle , and it only means "a flame " [ like he said] , then he is forced to come up with a reasonable explanation and translation to replace the poplar meaning we have known of this short Surah / 111
I guess he will fined an opening somewhere to get out of the hole he find him self in…. except it will not work …
He mentioned in a post that he, at age of 65, became a Muslim .. so he is still trying to make out Quran so late in his life … the more we are pointing out Quran's weakness the more he is trying to rationalizing it to balance the conflict in his mind … it is so clear to me and I am sure to all .
It is hard to admit to have been wrong for him to convert to Islam … It is hard to admit Islam was not better, then the other regions he left… it is actually a lot worse .
it most not be easy …
As you can see, Reed is in a dilemma that is why he avoids translating Q/111 …
---- if he agrees that ''Abi Lahab '' is the nick name of Muhammad' s uncle [ like it actuly is ] he has to admit he was wrong about Hadeeth role in Quran …. otherwise , the meaning of does not make any sense .
On the other hand …
--- if he disagree with '' Abi Lahab '' being a nick name of Muhammad's uncle , and it only means "a flame " [ like he said] , then he is forced to come up with a reasonable explanation and translation to replace the poplar meaning we have known of this short Surah / 111
I guess he will fined an opening somewhere to get out of the hole he find him self in…. except it will not work …
He mentioned in a post that he, at age of 65, became a Muslim .. so he is still trying to make out Quran so late in his life … the more we are pointing out Quran's weakness the more he is trying to rationalizing it to balance the conflict in his mind … it is so clear to me and I am sure to all .
It is hard to admit to have been wrong for him to convert to Islam … It is hard to admit Islam was not better, then the other regions he left… it is actually a lot worse .
it most not be easy …
written by abc , August 05, 2012
Yes he did mention that he was 65 when he started to study Islam. Which goes to show that you are never too old to be enlightened. Good for him!
I'm sure your pointing out stuff amuses him no end.
It's clear to see you look for even the slightest splinter from stop you drowning in your state of apostacy. That's why you are here, just to get psychological affirmation to your decision. Whilst deep down your heart and mind are in constant conflict.
And all the while time moves on, tick tock!
I'm sure your pointing out stuff amuses him no end.
It's clear to see you look for even the slightest splinter from stop you drowning in your state of apostacy. That's why you are here, just to get psychological affirmation to your decision. Whilst deep down your heart and mind are in constant conflict.
And all the while time moves on, tick tock!
written by fineliving56 , August 05, 2012
I did have a comlect when first when I started to open my eyes … but no more … I have non
MY post about Reed is ccorict … I asked him to translate 111 few time and avoids it becouse of his rejict to hadeeth … the conflict is in him and I .
I actually feel happier then I ever did … if it was not for the news about my city and My family under deadly war which makes me stay awake at night , I am in peace ..
This bit about tick tuck … is really funny …
Abc … dont you relaze it is ONLY because YOU believe in such punishment from a creator you are saying such silly words …
to a non believer like me, your '' tick tuck '' means a diddle … isn't true … Abc ?
The fact is I feel sorry for you Abc ...… because you are tortured by such thoughts of pure Azab …
I feel for you … and I am not being sarcastic … I really, am truly, which you save your mind of such thoughts and bad system of Ideas .. you seem young as old as my sons and I which you save your mind from thoughts, Islam has roots in …
There is no … tick tuck … there is only peace and rest after life, be assured and go on with your life happy with a mind to be good to others as you would want, others to be with you …
MY post about Reed is ccorict … I asked him to translate 111 few time and avoids it becouse of his rejict to hadeeth … the conflict is in him and I .
I actually feel happier then I ever did … if it was not for the news about my city and My family under deadly war which makes me stay awake at night , I am in peace ..
This bit about tick tuck … is really funny …
Abc … dont you relaze it is ONLY because YOU believe in such punishment from a creator you are saying such silly words …
to a non believer like me, your '' tick tuck '' means a diddle … isn't true … Abc ?
The fact is I feel sorry for you Abc ...… because you are tortured by such thoughts of pure Azab …
I feel for you … and I am not being sarcastic … I really, am truly, which you save your mind of such thoughts and bad system of Ideas .. you seem young as old as my sons and I which you save your mind from thoughts, Islam has roots in …
There is no … tick tuck … there is only peace and rest after life, be assured and go on with your life happy with a mind to be good to others as you would want, others to be with you …
written by Reed Wilson. , August 06, 2012
Bingo . I hope you know the meaning of contradiction.
Quran forbids eating port and Bible does not. Is it contradiction?
Contradiction would have been if Bible said 'do eat pork'.
Silence is no contradiction balamwa!
Quran forbids eating port and Bible does not. Is it contradiction?
Contradiction would have been if Bible said 'do eat pork'.
Silence is no contradiction balamwa!
written by Bingo , August 06, 2012
Read my post again. In Buddhism there is no concept of God and eternal hell. So, where is the question of God sending/NOT sending non-believers to hell? Your response simply doesn't make any sense.
written by abc , August 06, 2012
By tick tock I meant time will tell!
But your answer speaks volumes!
But your answer speaks volumes!
written by Bingo , August 06, 2012
Quran forbids eating port and Bible does not. Is it contradiction?
-- Bible forbids eating pork: And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Leviticus 11:7-8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass. [Deuteronomy 14:8]
Mr. Reed, Quran copied many of its contents from the Bible.
-- Bible forbids eating pork: And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Leviticus 11:7-8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass. [Deuteronomy 14:8]
Mr. Reed, Quran copied many of its contents from the Bible.
written by Reed Wilson. , August 07, 2012
Bingo. You write "Reed you are wrong"
You should rather say Reed you are right and then continue with:
-- Bible forbids eating pork: And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Leviticus 11:7-8
I said 'Bible does not say do eat pork' and there is no contradiction there.
What if Quran copied many of its contents from the Bible? What is bad there. Quran says: مَّا يُقَالُ لَكَ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ قِيلَ لِلرُّسُلِ مِن قَبْلِكَ ۚ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَذُو مَغْفِرَةٍ وَذُو عِقَابٍ أَلِيمٍ
"Naught is said to thee but what already was said to the messengers before thee. Surely thy Lord is a Lord of forgiveness and of painful retribution".
A Christian should rather be happy on propagation of Bible.
written by Yibel , August 07, 2012
from the Bible. Muhammad stole a few names and then made up a bunch of stuff to fit his personal agenda. He invented whole stories and conversations to prove his point, but these tales were not from the Bible. Some were from the Talmud (such as the raven burying its dead), some were from stories circulating at the time (such as the stories of The Cave, Dhul Qarnayn, Solomon's and Sheba, and the birth of Isa), and others were misapplied (such as the story of the birth of Maryam which is from the birth story of the prophet Samuel, and the story of King Saul which is from the story of Gideon, a warrior).
The Qur'an is a corruption from beginning to end.
The Qur'an is a corruption from beginning to end.
written by Reed Wilson. , August 08, 2012
Yibel. "Muhammad stole a few names and then made up a bunch of stuff to fit his personal agenda."
What about giving some examples?
What about giving some examples?
written by Bingo , August 08, 2012
Reed "I said 'Bible does not say do eat pork' and there is no contradiction there. "
--
Mr. Reed this is what you wrote earlier "Quran forbids eating port and Bible does not. Is it contradiction?" I presume English is not your first language. Or you intended something else.
You are definitely wrong in your comparative analysis of Buddhism and Islam.
--
Mr. Reed this is what you wrote earlier "Quran forbids eating port and Bible does not. Is it contradiction?" I presume English is not your first language. Or you intended something else.
You are definitely wrong in your comparative analysis of Buddhism and Islam.
written by Reed Wilson. , August 09, 2012
Yes Bingo I did ask "Quran forbids eating port and Bible does not. Is it contradiction?"
And I do mean it is not contradiction. Contradiction is, as I gave example, "Do eat port".
Later you told that pork is forbidden in Bible too. It again proves 'no contradiction'.
Bingo, I know workable English. Not much and literary English was required in my career in science. We will report what we observed.
I try to learn here.
And I do mean it is not contradiction. Contradiction is, as I gave example, "Do eat port".
Later you told that pork is forbidden in Bible too. It again proves 'no contradiction'.
Bingo, I know workable English. Not much and literary English was required in my career in science. We will report what we observed.
I try to learn here.
written by Bingo , August 09, 2012
You wrote- "Quran forbids eating port and Bible does not. Is it contradiction?"
--
Both Qoran and Bible forbid from eating pork. As per your statement Quran forbids but Bible "does not". I think you did not word it properly.
Have a nice day
--
Both Qoran and Bible forbid from eating pork. As per your statement Quran forbids but Bible "does not". I think you did not word it properly.
Have a nice day
written by Reed Wilson. , August 09, 2012
Bingo. "Both Qoran and Bible forbid from eating pork. As per your statement Quran forbids but Bible "does not". I think you did not word it properly."
I wanted to say that even if Bible does not forbid, it was not contradiction. Not forbidding something is not recommending that. Recommendation would have been contradiction.
You tell me that it is forbidden there too.
I wanted to say that even if Bible does not forbid, it was not contradiction. Not forbidding something is not recommending that. Recommendation would have been contradiction.
You tell me that it is forbidden there too.
written by Bingo , August 09, 2012
If you read verses from the Bible it does forbid eating pork!!
GOOD ONE.